The CUInsight Experience

Chuck Fagan – Trust is Not Enough (#5)

February 15, 2019 CUInsight / Chuck Fagan Season 1 Episode 5
The CUInsight Experience
Chuck Fagan – Trust is Not Enough (#5)
Show Notes Transcript

"Promise what you can deliver and work hard to deliver more" - Chuck Fagan

Welcome to episode five of The CUInsight Experience. Hosted by Randy Smith, co-founder and publisher of CUInsight.com. In each episode we have wide ranging conversations with thought leaders from around the credit union community. What issues are facing credit unions? What are they working on to help? What leadership lessons and life hacks have they learned along the way? What’s the greatest album of all time? These questions and more will be asked and answered.

The goal of The CUInsight Experience is to dive deeper with the people of the credit union community and find gems from their experiences that add value to all of us.

Our guest today is Chuck Fagan (@PSCUForward ). Chuck is the president and CEO of the PSCU. He leads PSCU driving digitization of the cooperative to enable credit union growth, and to provide an unparalleled member experience through service delivery, best-in-class payments solutions, and security of member data.

Chuck’s career in the credit union industry spans over three decades, beginning at Virginia Credit Union managing card services. In 1997, Fagan joined PSCU, and as EVP, Chief Sales Officer notably helped pioneer the company’s efforts in bringing emerging payments technologies to credit unions. From 2013 to 2015, Fagan was President & CEO of Credit Union Executive Society (CUES), a membership association dedicated to educating and developing credit union executives and emerging leaders. You can read more about Chuck here.

In this episode we discuss digital payments and disruption, the ongoing fight against fraud and protecting members and employee engagement. As we always do, we wrap up this episode getting to learn more about Chuck’s leadership style, life hacks and what life looks like outside PSCU.

Listen to the full episode or scroll down past the show notes to read the full transcript. You’ll even find out how Chuck’s blew up my inbox on one of his first days back at PSCU to the tune of 800 emails in one day. Enjoy.

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Speaker 1:

Hello Boys and girls of Credit Union land and welcome to the fifth episode of the Cu insight experience. My name is Randy Smith. I am one of the cofounders and the publisher of Si insight.com and it is my job on the show to have conversations with the best and the brightest of the credit union community to pick their brains and see if we can't find some nuggets that we can all learn from. My guest on today's show is Mr Chak Fagan, the president and CEO of Pscu. I've always enjoyed the conversations I've had with chuck in the past and knew this was going to be no different. I was really looking forward to the conversation with him. We talked about everything from the trends and the ever changing landscape of payments, the constant war against fraud and what digital disruption means for credit unions. It was looking forward to the leadership and life pacts part of this episode because in conversations with people on Chuck's team that I know, they've always talked about his leadership style and how much they enjoy working for him and with him. So I had a ton of questions there. I don't think you'll be disappointed. Then. As always, we wrap it up with the rapid fire questions where we get to know chuck a little bit better inside and outside of credit unions. Let's just say if you'll listen all the way through, you'll even hear how chuck blew up my inbox with over 800 emails on one of his first days back at Pscu. So without further ado, I give you my conversation with Mister Chuck Fagan. Enjoy. Chuck, thank you so much for being on the show today and being one of our early guests and Guinea pig. I was so looking forward to our conversation.

Speaker 2:

Oh Randy, thanks for having me. Number one. And you and I go back a number of years and just seeing the startup of you insight, what a great journey and congrats on the success.

Speaker 1:

Oh, thank you. I do appreciate that. And that's one of the reasons I was looking so forward to this. As we get know we do have a history and I've always enjoyed the conversations and when our paths cross. So I knew we would have a lot of fun today and that, you know, like I said was really looking forward to this. So I'd like to just jump right into it. Digital payments, digital disruption, fraud, there's so many topics that in PSCU space that are just top of mind. It seems like in everything we're reading I've seen a lot recently about tap to pay. Can you explain what that is and why it's creating so much buzz for our listeners?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, Geez. All those topics, it's kind of a how long do you have cause there, but yeah, tap to pay is interesting. As you think about the evolution of card products, you know, focusing on credit early card programs, really concentrated on price, you know, think a t and t universal, that kind of thing. Then we got into loyalty. So you had, you know, airline miles and then ultimately some merchandise and now obviously capital one has made a big run with cash. So kind of those being the first two phases. I think we've now shifted really for the first time to experience. So you think about your card utilization, everybody's, it's always been that swipe and you know we actually took a little bit of a back step when we rolled out EMV. EMV transaction took so much longer at the beginning they've re sequenced the transaction to get it back to kind of that swipe environment. But tap and go is really that next focus around the point of sale. So you know much like an apple pay, you tap the phone or in this case you tap the plastic and when you've got the large issuers, chase city capital one B of a all headed down the path of contactless. And then you think about the broad advertising that mastercard visa are going to do. It's hard to ignore that there's not going to be success. And then I think you look around the world as contactless has taken off and it's, it's really a one two second kind of transaction versus the eight to 15 second transaction you see today. So material difference. Even though that doesn't sound much, it's a material difference in the transaction experience and it's safer because you're not putting your card into anything. You're just literally right up to the tap, the near field communication and 10 on the card does the transfer of data and it's so close, there's no opportunity to really capture that.

Speaker 1:

So it's like convenience factor as well as it's a security factor.

Speaker 2:

Absolutely is. And we've seen those cards start out at such a high cost and once you get these big issuers and visa estimates, a 100 million pieces of plastic contactless in the u s this year. So when you get to that scale the price falls and it's getting to the point where it's very reasonable and you know a company like Pscu we've just gone through and renegotiate some contracts with our plastics providers and it's now the time and credit unions are going to have to, I think migrate that way. Just you got to stay competitive.

Speaker 1:

Absolutely. Like I said, from what I've been reading and seeing, even on the national level, I mean this is something that's a now thing for credit unions, not a two or three, four years from now.

Speaker 2:

It is in the early statistics just show such a rapid adoption. I mean in Australia for example, you've got, you know, 97 98% of transactions or contactless now and you know, a lot of credit unions are talking about, you know, should I just skip and go right to the mobile phone? But I think we've become as a society so ingrained to the piece of plastic, I think that's Kinda going to be that interim step. I mean I use apple pay whenever I can, but apple definitely wants their share of the transaction, a contactless transaction, you know, I think over time it's a better experience for the consumer and it might lead us more towards the actual phone itself being the payment device.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that makes sense. What other trends are you seeing in the payment space? How is PSCU working just to keep pushing that forward to support credit unions? I kind of mentioned it in the first question, what used to be big data. Now it seems to be a digital disruption that you can't see an article without. So what are you guys working on? What are the big things that you're seeing?

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so I'll just take a couple of the topics you've already mentioned. Fraud is just always in front of us and it's not just the actual cardholder transaction type for audits, the compromises you see with Equifax, Facebook, those types of things. The account takeover attempts we see in our call centers, significant cyber is obviously a a budget line item that I haven't been brave enough to turn down a budget request yet in the cyberspace, you know, one instance can crash your entire brand. So the whole focus around fraud is right in front of us all the time and it's a new report card every day. You know, you get those attempts and it's not like you can breathe easy because there are more common and if you think for a second that they haven't penetrated into part of your system, that's a naive thought. I mean you've got to chunk your data into small useless pieces that if they get into one section, they're prevented from really anything of value, a second faster payments. There's obviously a huge initiative to make immediate funds available and we're seeing an uptick in utilization on PDP. You know, I think my own unit usage, you know, I play golf on Saturdays, that's kind of my thing. And you know, if I win, I want the trophy, I want the five bucks. But you know, the Venmos sells, those things are really taken off. I think there's a huge conversions as we were talking around the payment device and digital banking and the connection there. So you think about, we mail a piece of plastic and it has a sticker on the card to say dial one 802 activate. While that's actually disruption to the consumer. Next time they log into digital banking on their phone or mobile banking, we know they have an activated, let's prompt them on the phone. So taking the API Apis and, and blending that together, all the cart controls, you know, you use your digital wallet to purchase an airline ticket to all the traveling you do and the mobile phone knows you purchased based on the merchant category code, an airline ticket less prompt you to set up a travel alert right then and there that sinks into your calendar on your phone and, and the purchase you made and you know, make it seamless for the consumer. So that convergence is really huge. And then I think the other area, and Pscu is certainly investing heavily in 19 is all around authentication. You know, exploring what blockchain may do, authentication, we've invested in a system called pin drop. So if I call the call center from my office, there's actually a highway behind my office. Pen drop picks up that background noise. So if I call from my office next time it recognizes an analyzes that I'm calling from the same place. So it's likely me let's send a four digit code to the mobile phone. And if I tell that four digit code to the representative I'm talking about, then I'm authenticated. So take an authentication process from 45 seconds down to 10 15 seconds because we know the member of better. That's the path we're on. So really trying to make the on the go channel more efficient for the consumer.

Speaker 1:

That's pretty cool stuff. Let me ask you this, is there anything on the fraud side of things, not to stay on that too long, but that the members should be doing to safeguard themselves beyond what you guys are doing behind the scenes to make sure that the cards are as safe as they can be? Right.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I think back to, you know, growing up, my dad who's an accountant, he would spend all kinds of time making sure I knew how to balance a checkbook. Digitals kind of made that process, you know, somewhat easier. But I think getting and staying in the habit of constantly staying on top of your accounts. If there's an account takeover, it could be a slow bleed. It could be a, you know, all in one transaction where the fraudsters actually wiring money or transferring money out and because of the access of that Equifax data for example, that had social security date of birth counts, you know, all of that stuff. I think that the member has to stay on top of those accounts on a regular basis. You know, a daily feed, you know, I get the daily cu insight feet, but a daily feed from the credit union just to make sure you're on top and managing stuff. And then from our end at Pscu, the challenge I gave our team in 2018 which they really came through on was we know what's happening with the card and the channel of payments we know in the call center and we put technology on place to try and make sure the authentication is accurate. We know through the balance consolidation site, which is password driven rewards site. So all these different channels to consumer access is, is there a way we can use the intelligence from the call center to benefit on the transaction side or to benefit on the rewards side. So a tool we call linkedin analysis ridges between all those things and we can see that an IP address is trying to fraudulent entry into the call center and we can use that intelligence over to the balance consolidation log insight. So the next challenge that I've given them this year is can we connect to the credit union because the credit union has the branch channel, their own call center. So can we together use the intelligence that they have and combine it with what we have and vice verse to protect the members, privacy, security, all of that. But pretty complex. And the fraudsters are using artificial intelligence as well. So you know, we, we have nice meetings that you and I have been to and Nice hotels and the fraudsters are in Nice hotels having their meetings as well because they're not taking pay cuts.

Speaker 1:

No, we had made me, while they were at that hotel, they got into the Marriott system too and got everybody's passport number. So I had to be a part of that one. You mentioned your team and putting these challenges out to your team. I know you have an amazing team over there. So what would you view as the greatest strength of your team at BSC?

Speaker 2:

Let's tie this back to see you insight. And when I started here in April of 2015 I had just come over from cues but I had spent 16 years here so obviously was familiar with it and getting that external view back into Psu is so valuable coming in. And what I saw was a need for our team to know more about credit unions and our team to know more about payments. So I provided them with cu insight.com in fact you and I had been together shortly before there and I think you sent me an email like right after that meeting here, I'm talking in front of you know, 2000 employees and you said, what did you do yesterday? Cause I think you got an influx of registrations for your daily feed or something.

Speaker 1:

It was 800 Pscu people signed up in one day. So yeah.

Speaker 2:

Well that was cool. And what I think has been such a strength of ours is how we've learned to know what a credit union is going through. And just last week, one of your other podcast meetings with Gigi Highland, we had GG down here last week and B, because that cud program is such a valuable asset to the industry. You know, Pscu now has 13 fully certified cud ies and their ambassadors throughout Pscu. But we've put together with the help of Gigi Day and a half condensed version, we kind of have, you know, the, the doctorate degree being the cud program, the master's degree being this day and a half program. And then our own team built a principles and philosophies class that is one day and we've now had over 900 employees go through that, which I would kind of call the college degree. So we really tried to put three levels together to strengthen our knowledge around credit unions. And then likewise, the same has occurred on payments.

Speaker 1:

That is awesome. I love that as a d I love that. So yeah, the more people that have the opportunity to go through it or even get their feet wet. I think that is an amazing thing. I wanted to switch gears just a little bit. PSCU member forum is coming up, you know, something you guys do annually and personally from attending it. I can tell you, it does seem like you've really ramped it up over the last few years. What are you excited about for this year? What are credit unions telling you that they need to know more about coming into this year as event?

Speaker 2:

Well, as you know, we, we do a lot of surveys, a lot of studies and one thing that's clear is consumers in general still trust credit unions that year after year it comes out. But credit unions I think understand and I think you'd agree, trust is not enough. You know, if the credit union doesn't have an appetite for moving in this digital disruption, uh, managing data and understanding the member better, doing things like tap to pay contactless, then you know that that trust factor probably is at risk because all of the advertising from the national players and other consumers having these products and making their financial life a little easier to manage, the credit union's got to be right there with them. So I think you'll see at our meeting a big focus around that what we're doing to enable a better experience for the consumer. You'll see a lot about fraud and security and this little announcement that occurred not quite three weeks ago with our 30 year partner, first data emerging into Pfizer, there's going to be quite a bit of discussion about what that means. And you know, I've been in a lot of discussions here lately trying to understand that and really coming to grips that this could be a really strong positive for Pscu and our member owners just because we become such a influential client and the first date of world. And I think Pfizer of sees that now. Just a the volume and scale that we represent, especially over the last couple of years as we merged the Jack Henry payments business into our company.

Speaker 1:

Okay. Yeah, a lot of changes going on there. Well, I look forward to the event all signed up for this year. So Austin, Texas, you can't beat that. Let's take the crystal ball. If we were sitting down in a year from now, what is it that you're most proud of that you and your team have accomplished that Pscu?

Speaker 2:

I think keeping up with the speed, you know, as you look at in our space, you know, change is just inevitable. I mean I, I honestly, when the chairman and CEO of first data called me at six 30 in the morning that Wednesday, I mean that was the last call I was expecting to receive, you know, and now, you know, we had a whole process here recently to refresh our strategic plan with our board and we're going to have to go back in now because of that change and make sure that it aligns with where the market's going. So you look at that and then you look at the fraud side, look at the payment technologies that are moving. How important to your point earlier that data's become an understanding what the consumer's doing. I mean it's, it's kind of spooky on your phone when you talked to something, you know, with my wife or whatever, and the next thing I know I got a flash, a linkedin or Facebook page right to that and credit unions, you know, they're going to need to identify those opportunities that they can link closer to members. So if Psu is able to keep pace, which I expect that we will be and will be out front to make sure credit cans can stay competitive in the market, I think that's a big win.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. The data side of it is, is amazing to me. Right. What current beliefs held by credit unions do you see that you think are going to significantly change in the near term?

Speaker 2:

I'll go back to what we just talked about. I think it's that trust factor that if, if credit unions really rest on the trust they've built over the years without going down the path and making sure that their digital banking application is, you know, as current as it can be. If you, if you think about over time the branch network was always that connectivity to the member. And as that's evolved, I think the branch shifts more to life changes. You know, buying a house, buying a car, planning for retirement, planning for education. Those become the reasons that the member goes to the branch. And you know, we want you to get the deposit in the electronically remote deposit, capture a tms and then we want your withdrawals to be through point of sale. So all of that stuff is playing out. But if, if the credit union thinks about that, that branch interface has now shifted to the mobile phone, tablet or PC, that digital banking application becomes the direct interface with the member. And you know, one of our board members said it best here at our recent meeting that when a situation like fraud or or something happens on a member's card, that's actually an opportunity where the credit union trust Psu to interact with their member direct and they don't get to interact with them anymore through the branch. So that experience when they call us has to be exceptional. So you know, I think looking at not only staying current, but making sure that the members taking care of seven by 24 and as we look at ourselves, a credit union can trust in Pscu. We're were built by credit unions for credit unions owned by credit unions. My board is 13 credit union CEO. So that's what we're about.

Speaker 1:

Yep. I think that's so interesting, right? Is that idea of coming back to trust there. So I'd like to switch directions here, kind of get into the second part of the podcast. Talk a little bit about leadership and life packs. I was really excited about this part, not only because of knowing, but also being friends with some people on your management team. They speak very highly of you and they've told me some things. So this, this was the section I was real excited to pick your brain on just to start. Like what was it about credit unions that inspired you not only in the beginning but to take the job as president and CEO of Pscu, which I know for you it was a dream job.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. I don't know whether I've even told you this. I started right out of college in 1988 at Virginia Credit Union. And my first big decision at the credit union was Pscu is in the process of converting to first data at that time that was planned for 1989 and Jane Watkins, who was my boss at the time, she was CFO, ultimately became CEO. Uh, one of my great mentors and she really charged me with making the decision should we stay on the current platform or should we migrate to Pscu? And as, as I looked at the whole, set up, my recommendation ultimately it was to go to Psu in large part because it was about credit unions and keeping everything in an organization. We can trust. So I was a client of PSU use for nearly 10 years out of school and started here in 97 so one way or the other, even at the two and a half years at cues for 30 years of my time in the industry, I've been directly or indirectly exposed to Pscu. So you're right, my favorite company anywhere. And when I got the opportunity to come back, you know, the people of our company or are really so passionate about supporting the members, supporting the credit end and it was just a no brainer as as great a company and organization is. Cues was, this was just where my roots were.

Speaker 1:

Has that inspiration change you just mentioned 30 years? Basically it has that inspiration changed at all with time on the job. You know,

Speaker 2:

it has changed because you, you get a different perspective with each time. You know, one of the great things that did happen was getting that external view of Pscu to see, you know, how PSE was viewed in the market, how Pscu looked and felt to me at juice. Then coming back, you know, uh, we had a group of, this was just a couple of months ago, we had a group of junior achievements, uh, students and all with a desire to go into the financial fields. So they are high school sophomores and, and we're really engaged with that as part of our community efforts. And one kid asks, you know, what's the favorite part of your job? And my perspective of now seeing people make a career out of Pscu. We have our first three 30 year employees here this quarter. It was 1989 when the Pscu is, we know it really was established. We started in[inaudible] 77 but 89 is when we kind of built out the infrastructure. So to see people make careers and see the impact that the company has, not only on them but on their families, on, you know, you see these individuals that uh, get married, have children and, and in some cases now grandchildren during their scope of being here at Psu. That that's just an amazing feeling to watch. And obviously it puts a level of responsibility on the position that you know makes you really want to do well for the team you get to work with.

Speaker 1:

The word that was in my head the entire time was responsibility because I remember when we hired our first employee at sea, you insight. I felt my job changed. Like I instantly, it was my job to make sure that her and her kids had Mac and cheese on their table. You know what I mean? Like that was how I viewed it. But that's, that's amazing. 30 years plus. Speaking of change that you've seen over the 30 years, what's the biggest change in credit unions over that time?

Speaker 2:

We talked quite a bit about it. I think it's that appetite for technology now. It really used to rest on the branch and don't get me wrong, credit in the instill need. Obviously the branch network, there's still investing in new branches, but technology has just become so amazingly important. We, we had a credit union, one of our member owners, long time in here last week. I mean, this is a$2 billion credit union and they're looking at a new core. They're looking at new digital banking, they're looking obviously to do more with us on the payment side. They're looking at new phone switches for their call center. So I'm, I'm talking complete upgrade and their community has such a high market share. You would think, you know, boy, just keep doing what you're doing. But know this, this credit union recognizes how technology has changed and having to grow with it. So seeing credit unions, willingness to do that I think is amazing. And then the other thing that I think you've seen as well is, you know, you, you can go into credit unions first quarter every year and them say, you know, boy, we had a super strong year last year. You know, what are you going to do to improve upon it while we're not going to get there the same way we got there last year, we're going to have to figure out new ways to grow. So I think that whole creativity side is pretty fun to watch as well.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. So I'll tell you, this is probably the question that I've been looking forward the most asking you. Like I said, I spoke to a couple people on your team, right? One of them told me that when he first came on board with you, if you told him that like most companies focus on the client first you focus on helping your employees be happy and then they'll do a good job for the credit union. What does that look like at Pscu and in your leadership style?

Speaker 2:

Soso Dave Cirillo really was, uh, in fact there's a quote outside of my office that says our employees are our greatest asset. So the foundation of PSC was built that way. My beliefs have really bought into this whole employee engagement notion and we become very close with Gallup in measuring how engaged our employees are. And now with you know, six or so offices around the country, you know, we're 23, 2,400 employees and we just made it into the upper quartile of Gallup's organizations that they survey. And you know, to me, if people are engaged, people are looking forward to coming to work. And we're taking advantage of their strengths. I mean this whole, you know, Gallup strengthsfinders things from Jim Clifton that if we can manage to people's strengths, you'd think the traditional review, you sit down and they say why you could've done this better, you could strengthen this. But if we go in and say, Hey, I think you're exceptional at working with credit unions in this regard and we want you to do more of it, we'll find somebody that can offset the weaknesses. So, uh, really a strengths based environment and a focus around, you know, doing things that the employees recognize. We have wellness Wednesdays once a month. So we focus on community wellness, financial wellness and physical wellness. So we'll have our 401k provider and to help our employees get ready for retirement. We'll do BMI testing, we'll work with the homeless here in Saint Pete or one of our other locations. So different things to try and you know, really show that obviously huge what you do on a daily basis. But we care about you as an individual and we give employees if they participate in wellness Wednesdays, do other things. We were given an opportunity to earn back a significant portion of their health care insurance by being involved. And it's a great partnership.

Speaker 1:

It's so interesting you bring that up. Gg obviously talked about it on the podcast, Jill, she talked a lot about whole health. I think Gigi is the example of someone saying like, how can we bring down your stress or your blood pressure? It helped me pay my mortgage, you know, that type of a thing or whatever the story was. Right. But that's how everything ties together. So that to me is very cool that that's a focus that you have there as well. Another spot that I heard from multiple people that just know you and I and with my interaction with you, I've always felt this as well as that you're a fantastic listener. Is that something that you built over time or was a young chuck got teenage years or in college? Like always a great listener?

Speaker 2:

That's a really cool question. You know, over the years at Esu in particular, I started out with operational responsibilities, had some training responsibilities and then Dave kind of migrated me into sales, which I had never thought I would be in sales and could actually connect. And your immediate thought about sales is, you know, you've got to tell your story and all that. And I found almost the opposite that if I go in and really listen to a credit end, listen in this case to my employees and try and create an experience around what I hear, you know that's going to connect with the credit end that we want to work with or connect with the employee that we have. So you know, communication two ways. And I find that listening allows me to connect more and you know, you better translate that to home as well. I better listen to my wife one of those things. You know how that goes

Speaker 1:

that I understand. Yes. I know I don't need to talk nearly as much, that's for sure. Is there anything that your crew at Pscu has heard you say so many times that as soon as you start saying it they finish your sentence or that good.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, there are couple all's zone in on one and that is, you know, if the member doesn't know Pscu exist then we've done our job well. I say that all the time because the credit union trust us to engage with their members through the call center, through our fraud groups, through some technology. If you think about a credit union member going to their credit union, they don't care that Pscu is behind the credit union supporting their payment initiatives. They care about the credit union they work with. And in that equation we're not perfect. But if we do a good job of servicing that member, then you know, I think we get to a level where we're close to the service that a credit union can provide. You know, we'll never know the member as well as the credit indirectly, but if we can get close then you know, I think we enhance the experience and we extend maybe the hours in some cases to be able to support the members. So I say that almost in every meeting all the time, you know, let's deliver as kind of my, my saying, but it's make sure the member doesn't know we exist.

Speaker 1:

You've mentioned a couple of different people that I assume would have been mentors in your career on this episode. Is there a life lesson or a piece of advice that you received that you find yourself going back to that you've carried with you all the way through your career?

Speaker 2:

Uh, my father's always to me is, you know, promise what you can deliver and work hard to deliver more than you promise. So that kind of plays right into the service beer. When I got the job, honestly, it cues Jane Watkins, her advice to me was CEOs seldom get the truth, find the people willing to give you the truth and keep them close by. So yeah, CEOs are often told what they think you want to hear versus you know the actual thing. So find the people that you can keep close by that don't mind saying, hey here, here's the real deal and it may sometimes not be what you want to hear. And then the last one I'll throw at you, a current chair of the board, Jeff Marks from citadel. He says you work for a board, you don't work for a single director. So you get kind of consolidated feedback and if you zone in on one comment but it doesn't span the scope, then you're probably spending too much time on that one instance. You focus on the entire board and how the board is connecting and I would say those three are right at the top of my list.

Speaker 1:

I will tell Ya, I bet that last one, there's a bunch of CEOs out there right now that have boards that they're like, that's good stuff. When you were talking about keeping people, that'll kind of give you that honest opinion and clothes. I remember starting cu insight. There was one individual that whenever I had an idea and you know, a lot of the times people are like, that's amazing, that's great. That's going to do well. I would shoot the idea over to him because half the time he'd be like, what are you thinking? Why would you ever, and I would just, it was always that, please tell me more. What am I missing? But I appreciated the honesty. It, I remember multiple times early on that too. I was like, I've got this thing, I want to try it. But it was the person who would go, that's just dumb. Or Andy, why would you do that? So valuable. Yeah, absolutely. That's for sure. Again, leadership question. When you run into a wall, you know there's a problem you have or you're just having a tough time, you or your team busting through, is there anything that you do to clear your head to take a look at it from a different direction, to figure out a way to get through it? I guess

Speaker 2:

so. The amazing thing, I think that has helped me throughout the time here at Psu. It did. It accused as well is that experience I had at the credit union. So when we kind of hit that brick wall, you know, I try to go back and think about how would the credit union look at this situation, how would they view what we're trying to accomplish here? And you know, we're a huge user of advisory groups. We have product advisory groups, fraud technology, and it's the thought process of if you build it, they might come if you build it with them, they're already there and being linked up and doing things that I experienced at the credit union. And I know people have experienced that. Maybe it comes back to listening, Randy, that we talked about, you know, when, when you hit that brick wall, what a better time to listen and try and understand what somebody else wants out of Ya.

Speaker 1:

Yeah. I need to be better at that. As a leader, how do you make sure to keep your message not only to your team as the president and CEO, but how do you make sure to keep Pscu is message fresh to your member credit unions as well?

Speaker 2:

But, and that's way harder than you think. I mean, you being an information provider, you're right in the center of that. You know, I think a lot of it is education. You know, because our industry is moving so fast, we kind of have an embedded asset and I'm talking credit union industry and payments. You have an embedded asset of that movement, keeping you fresh to a degree in terms of, you know, if the member doesn't know we exist, keeping the technology moving in alignment with that. You know, you think about, okay so Pscu we've invested in technologies to where we can use to authenticate into the call center that we were testing it. We have some experience around it. But if we set that up and the credit union doesn't have it in their own call center, right, then we've created an uneven experience or vice versa. If the credit union puts it in, there isn't, we don't have it in ours. So I think staying fresh and, and understanding what credit unions are doing in their own shop and what their capabilities are and we have to align to that. So that Kinda just by nature keeps us fresh. Okay.

Speaker 1:

You've mentioned a couple of times, but the time away from BFE was actually a benefit for you to take a different look at things because you went to an organization that focused pretty much solely on education. Do you think that move that important level up when you came back?

Speaker 2:

So you're going to now get into the second area that employees could finish my sentence or perhaps hate hearing. And that was that for 16 years of being here at Pscu when we were in top budget discussions, the easy decision always, oh, cut education, cut training and I don't allow that to occur anymore. That number one, it's too easy. But number two, it's the worst thing you can do. You know, we, we went through a situation where our CEO Dave Solo passed away sadly back in 2010 and getting that view from cues about the importance of leadership development, the importance of keeping your organization moving forward. I would say the emphasis in Pscu on succession, leadership development and training at all levels, career pathing, it's not even compare to what used to be. I mean, we totally made that a priority. Now

Speaker 1:

I remember talking to you about that not too long after you went back and yeah, it would be tough not to after the previous role. So I think that's perfect spot to kind of wrap up that section now to have a little bit of fun and get to know you a little bit more. These are rapid fire questions, but your answers, they don't have to be. Okay. First is you have a free day. There's nothing on the calendar. What passions outside of credit unions do you have? What do you do to recharge or online?

Speaker 2:

I do play a lot of golf. All right. You know, it's one of those things where the time availability is less and less. So I'm not as good as I used to be, but I still truly enjoy getting out, being outside, being, you know, kind of in a little competition. Um, my wife and I became grandparents about 18 months ago, so congratulations. His name is chase. Getting time with chase is just the ultimate now.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it will be down in Saint Pete. That has to help for you can golf year round. So that's a beautiful, absolutely does. Do you have any daily routines that if you don't do your day just feels off? I will mention mine again. I Journal every morning and hopefully moles skin will start sending me journals. If you don't do it, you just don't feel like you're starting off on the right foot or the day wasn't completed.

Speaker 2:

I wake up pretty early, you know, five 35 45 and I read, you could see me on your site if you're looking at Ip addressed, I'm reading what happened the day before, you know, I get to work and I feel like I kind of lose ground all day. But that time in the morning I read and understand what went on in the credit union space. I understand. And, and that's beyond payments. I want to know what credit unions are facing really across the board. And then I spend a good bit of time reading about payments. You know, what's happening and you know, not just our card based payments but you know how blockchain across the world is maybe getting closer to the point of sale, that kind of stuff. So you know, probably a good 45 minutes to an hour reading and understanding that. And, and I'll expand to say that that whole process of losing brown during the day, you know, one, one of my quirks, but if I don't have my email down to about 25 emails by the end of the week, that means I've got to work at some point over the weekend because I want to start the week where I feel like I'm a little ahead. So no one I'm going to lose ground, you know, it might be, you know, five 30 on a Saturday morning or whatever that I'm going to try and get my email back to a managed state so that when I start the new week, um, you know, if, if you're on airplanes and traveling, I mean there's no way you can keep up with all of them.

Speaker 1:

Is True. I'm, I'm with you on that. I hate a whole email boxes. The random question. What's the best album of all time? The one you can listen to it without skipping a song.

Speaker 2:

Ooh, I'm going to go with ACDC back in black. Ah, that's a good one. Yeah, that's a good one. You know, if, if it's a more mellow kind of situation, maybe dire straight brothers and arms,

Speaker 1:

two classics. I can't argue against you. Especially with the CDC one.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. Well, you know, we spend a lot of time, my wife and I have gotten really into the Tampa Bay lightening hockey there. They're good, but the environment they've created there and all the games start with ACDC thunderstruck it's just cool.

Speaker 1:

That's a great arena, right?

Speaker 2:

Yup.

Speaker 1:

I'm a huge reader. We have a stack of books in our house that just keeps growing from recommendations of others. Is there a book over your lifetime career that you've gifted more than others or that you've just told people that they should read it?

Speaker 2:

So when I got, I think it was this job, Mark Meyer, obviously good friend of both of ours up at fire lane, he sent me a book called the first 90 days and you know, if you read that it applies to so much more than just, you know, coming into a CEO role and it can apply to you just started a new job and you started in a new department, you took on some additional responsibility and you so you can expand it on and on. But the need for in those first 90 days and getting quick wins, that book has always stuck, you know, all the traditional good degrade those kinds of books and a couple on loyalty because loyalty is so important to us. But that first 90 days book is probably the one I'd highlight.

Speaker 1:

You know, that book has been brought up before and I would say over the past few years, that finger of the past, I don't know, a couple of years at least, that is probably one that I've heard about the moment. Right.

Speaker 2:

And they, they keep updating it to that book has had some revisions to it.

Speaker 1:

I think what you pointed out about the book though too is the idea that it doesn't mean just for like you're taking over the to lead the organization as a whole. I mean it's just such a great piece of writing for, like you said, starting a new job, giving her a promotion, whatever it happens to be a new department. So I have a question that I don't send. I have a feeling it's going to lose its luster as people listen to the podcast more about, I like it to be a top of mind. When you hear the word success. Who was the first person you think of?

Speaker 2:

Uh, Dave Serola. Okay. Dave was the first employee of Pscu in 1983 and at the time of his passing we had 1700 employees connected with nearly 500 credit ends. And I mean he just, he had a vision for the business. He had a, a connectivity into the industry that just success surrounded him.

Speaker 1:

Your story earlier I thought was great that it seems like he recognized something in you that you didn't even realize existed and when he moved into the sales side and things of that nature.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that's a good pickup. I don't know why he thought that, but you know, he had such a loyal group. When I got the opportunity to come back the employees, we have a two story four year as you enter the building. I'm in and across the top rail, I don't know, probably 15 feet long was welcome home chuck and all the employees had signed it and I mean it just, it Kinda said, man, I'm the third CEO and Pscu is history and to follow, you know what Dave did and try and build upon it. But you know, he, he was told learn a trade. He wound up with two graduate degrees and you know, built a company. Like he built a pretty amazing,

Speaker 1:

that's a great story right there. As you've gotten older, what does it become more important to you and has there been anything that's become less important?

Speaker 2:

Well, certainly being a grandfather has changed the game of bet. Our daughters are 28 and 23 are our oldest daughter and her husband, when they told us a baby was on the way. That was like man. And just seeing him and I mean I think he looks at me and just associates fun. I told my daughter I'm not doing anything to discourage. I'm not doing any discipline. He's going to know me as fun GRANDPA. Yeah, I've just grown to appreciate that and in such huge ways. And then you know, on the deemphasize side, you know I used to worry constantly about so many little things and to now keep those off to the side and really focus big picture on, you know, family on ensuring that employees here have a great place to work where they can be successful. Those are the things that have really taken over

Speaker 1:

and that to me is the perfect spot to end. Thank you again for taking the time and being on the show. I know how busy you are. Last question. Do you have any final asks of our listeners or final thoughts you'd like to share?

Speaker 2:

A lot of times my question to Credit Union folks, credit unions are working with consumers and when they asked the consumer a question of I want you to align with a member owned cooperative instead of one of these large national banks. Pscu is asking the same align with a member owned cooperative in the system, one that you can trust knowing that you as a credit union have to keep your products and services current and competitive and we have to do the same, but that same question they're asking this consumer we're asking and that that would be my my ass that they always consider a credit union owned organization as they extend their business. Again, knowing that if we can't compete on price, product, service, technology, then you know all bets are off, but all things being equal consider a cooperative.

Speaker 1:

Thank you again chuck. I greatly appreciate it. We'll link to everything down below in the show notes. If I have more questions of you, is there a preferred way for them to get ahold of you?

Speaker 2:

Uh, see fagan@pscu.com that's, that's the easiest way. And if you send me a bunch of emails, it means I'll be working on the weekend. But Randy, I do want to thank you and you're everywhere and we look forward to hosting you in Austin. It's going to be a phenomenal meeting again and just been fun watching your 10 years of success there.

Speaker 1:

Thank you very much. And my ask to the audiences don't fill up chuck the mailbox, so we have to work this weekend. So a lot of them spend some time with the grandkids. Thanks again, chuck. I'd greatly appreciate it. We'll talk and see you soon in Austin.

Speaker 2:

Randy, all the best. Thank you. Thank you.